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Good evening. This is
Radio Free Beszel. I

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am Alphonse. Tonight:
The Pandemic of Hate.

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"a false, treacherous and
contemptible swine: this

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was shameful Israel, the
wicked and disloyal who

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hated good and loved everything
evil, who then

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poisoned several rivers
and fountains so that

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many lost their lives;
for whoever used them

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died suddenly. Then every
Jew was destroyed,

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some hanged, others burned, some
were drowned, others beheaded."

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"under conditions like these,
there are people

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who deliberately take
sides with the enemy

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and must be treated
accordingly. In

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times of war, such
people were shot."

0:44
"Treat them like the
plague-spreading lepers

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that they are. You want
to be put in isolation

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camps? That's where
this is headed, you

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will have deserved it,
and I'm all for it."

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The first quote I just read
was from Guillaume

0:59
de Machaut in 1349, during
the Black Death when

1:02
the people in the town
where he was decided

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that the Jews were responsible
for the plague,

1:07
and murdered them. The second
quote was by Arūnas

1:11
Valinskas, a Lithuanian
public intellectual

1:14
and a former parliamentarian,
in September, 2021.

1:19
The third quote was from
a reddit discussion in

1:23
Canada, also in September
'21. The post was

1:26
highly - extraordinarily
highly - upvoted,

1:30
with many awards. I have
never seen hate like

1:33
this. I've never seen our
leaders encourage us

1:37
to divide and hate and
avoid one another, to

1:40
blame other people for
threatening our lives.

1:44
The closest I recall was
following 9/11 when

1:47
there was widespread blame
of Muslims. But this

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this is much worse. And
the height of it is

1:54
the vaccine mandates, the
vaccine passports.

1:58
I'm vaccinated, by the
way, by choice before

2:02
all the madness began.
But I shouldn't have

2:04
to say that. Here's what
it's like for someone

2:08
who isn't, a Lithuanian
man, Gluboco Lietuva,

2:13
who joined Twitter specifically
to explain what

2:15
it was like for him and
his wife who declined

2:18
the vaccine passport in
his country. He says

2:21
they've been suspended from
their jobs. They can't

2:24
return - and they wouldn't
if they could, because

2:26
their co-workers are sending
death threats.

2:28
They can't get new jobs
in their fields. They

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can't even enter the
supermarkets to buy groceries

2:34
because they're banned
without the passport.

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They have to buy food from
stalls on the street.

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They need to fix their
home but they

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can't go into the
hardware store,

2:42
and they can't even hire someone
to do the repairs

2:46
for them. He writes, "Despite
hardship we decided

2:50
resistance is our moral
path. We want our kids

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some day to feel pride towards
us, not disgust.

2:57
Freedom is fragile, and
we must defend it.

3:01
If not us, then who?
We do not stop you

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earning a living, though
you stop us. We do

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not ban you from buying
food and clothing,

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though you ban us. We
do not hate you,

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though you hate us. We
do not banish you,

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though you banish us.
We do not wish death

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upon you, though you
wish death upon us.

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And when the time comes,
as it inevitably will,

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when you too are banished
by the ever-increasing

3:29
arbitrary rules of the
new authoritarianism,

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we will fight for your rights
just as we fight

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now for ours. Because
we are all equal. We

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all have equal right to
exist in society."

3:44
For me this recalls the famous
poem by Martin Niemöller:

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"First they came for
the Communists, and

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I didn't speak up,
because I wasn't a

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Communist. Then they came
for the Jews, and

3:55
I didn't speak up, because
I wasn't a Jew.

3:58
Then they came for the
Catholics, and I

4:00
didn't speak up, because
I was a Protestant.

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And they came for me,
and by that time

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there was no one left
to speak up for me."

4:13
How have we come to
this? How have we

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come to a time when
we're willing to

4:17
to to hate our fellow
citizens? And

4:20
say that's moral?
And celebrate it?

4:24
How have we come to the
point where we can wish

4:26
for the deaths of our fellow
citizens? Large

4:29
numbers of us? I've heard
hate from people I know.

4:32
When the vaccine passport
came in where I live,

4:35
it was only for non-essential
activities. You can

4:37
go to the library without
one. You can go to the

4:40
grocery store without one.
But you can't go to a

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restaurant. And I spoke to
a friend and he thought

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it was a good idea. And
I thought, oh well, you

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know, because maybe it
can keep people safer.

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But that's not what he said
- no, he said because

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then the unvaccinated will
suffer. They will be

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punished, and that will
encourage them to get the

4:57
shot. Such hate. I didn't
even know what to say.

5:03
There are a number
of interviews on

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YouTube with a Dutch
psychologist

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named Mattias Desmet,
D-E-S-M-E-T. If you search

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for that and his theory
about "mass formation"

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you can also find some
articles summarizing

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it. You'll see what
he has to say.

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He saw this coming before
it happened. He made

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financial decisions in late
2019 because he felt

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that the public was on
the verge of something

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like this. The pandemic
was only the excuse.

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What he explains with
his theory of mass

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formation, which is in
a sense a theory of

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how totalitarianism happens
from the bottom up, is

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that there are four conditions
that lead to people

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joining movements like
this. And these are

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familiar if you listen
to my episodes on

5:51
totalitarianism, where
Hannah Arendt talks

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about similar things, and
with my talk about

5:57
René Girard and scapegoats.
The first of these

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conditions is social isolation,
which has been

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increasing for a variety
of reasons in the

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1990s, and then with social
media even more,

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and now with lockdowns even
more still, to the

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point where many people have
few friends or none.

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The second, he says,
is a failure of

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sense-making, a lack
of meaning in life.

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And we see people expressing
that all the

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time. The third is free-floating
anxiety.

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Free-floating means it doesn't
have a target -

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people are just anxious,
they feel that they're

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precarious or something's
going to go wrong. And

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that's certainly the case
in the economy and the

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incredible competition,
which I've also talked

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about in previous episodes
about the information

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economy and elite
overproduction. And fourth

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and finally there's a sense
of free-floating

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aggression and anger. And
I think it's clear

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that we saw this well
before the pandemic.

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And what Desmet says
is that when all

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of these conditions
are fulfilled,

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that people are feeling
miserable

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and they want to
find a way out.

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If they're given a
target and told,

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this is the source
of your troubles,

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they may turn on that
target. And with a

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feeling of self-sacrifice,
a feeling of elation,

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of ecstasy - he says it's
almost like a hypnotic

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state where people don't
even notice the things

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that are lost. They don't
notice the costs of

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their actions. They don't
notice other harms

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that are happening in the
world, because they

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just focused on that target
that they blame for

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everything that's wrong.
And that's when they

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become capable of great
atrocities, he says.

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This parallels almost exactly
René Girard's theory

7:45
that I talked about in Contagion
and Scapegoat,

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where the strife in society
and the distinctions

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have broken down and people
are blaming each

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other, but then all of a
sudden they turn as one

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on a single target, a group
or an individual,

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and they scapegoat and
destroy and expel

8:03
that target. And then
harmony is restored,

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because they're all on the
same side again. Desmet

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says though that not everybody
signs up for this.

8:13
He says that about 30 percent
join the ecstasy,

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about 30 percent are effectively
hypnotized.

8:20
Another 40 percent go
along - they're not

8:23
ecstatic, but they follow
the lead of the few.

8:27
And the final 30 percent
are opposed. They see

8:30
what's happening and they
fight against it. He

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says there's no pattern that
predicts who will be

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in this group. They come
from all walks of life,

8:38
they come from all political
philosophical

8:41
and religious backgrounds,
but they unite

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against the tragedy they
see unfolding before

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them. And often they too
can become targets.

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I know the people who hate
think they're justified.

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They think they're
justified because

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they think they're
right. They think

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they have the truth -
and maybe they do,

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but then the people during
the Black Death

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also thought they had the
truth when they blamed

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the Jews, and they were wrong.
Who are we to claim

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that we uniquely have
the truth? Those who

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are most confident are
often most in error.

9:18
But even if they do have
the truth, does

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that justify these kinds
of behaviors?

9:23
If we look back in history,
is there any

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time that jumps out as
being a good time

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when it was the right
thing to do to

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blame a few people for
what was wrong,

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to expel a group from
society, to deny them

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participation, to deny their
humanity, to describe

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them as enemies and vermin?
Has that ever been

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the right thing to do? I
can't think of a time.

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The second argument that
they will make is

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that this protects the
community. If we can

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make those few people go
along, if we can all

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get vaccinated, then it
will end the pandemic.

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But even if that were true
- and despite all

10:02
the virtues of the vaccine
that persuaded me

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to take it, it isn't - even
if that were true,

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forcing people is not going
to persuade them to

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come on-side. Some of them
will, but the cost

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to protecting the community
is destroying it.

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If you hate people like
this, if you treat

10:20
them as second-class citizens
and outsiders,

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how do you expect to have
a community after

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that? What happens next
time when you want

10:27
people on your side to
do the right thing?

10:30
They won't join because
you broke it. It's

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better to persuade. It's
better to recognize that

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people have the right to
make their own mistakes.

10:41
It's better to realize that
we as citizens are not

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judge jury and executioner,
to go and decide who's

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good and who's bad. It's
better to have a society

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where we're all treated as
equals and we all have

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access to due process.
But there's the third

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reason, a third reason
that is seldom spoken:

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which is that people hate
because it feels good.

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Because they think they're
so angry that they

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can't keep it in. "Who could
blame me for hating

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people who put my family at
risk," they might say.

11:18
Well, I will. I will, even
though I've made the

11:21
mistakes so many times myself,
and I'm sure I'll

11:24
make it again. But hate is
not bound to targets.

11:28
It's like an energy that flows.
Once you have hate

11:33
it spreads. Other people
mirror it. Other

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people echo it back to
you. It spreads, it

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shifts from target to target.
Girard talks about

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this - how the scapegoat
can first be one group,

11:45
and then another as different
scapegoats

11:47
attract more and more
people, until finally

11:50
the majority fixate on one
target. Desmet says

11:53
this too. He suggests that
maybe the solution

11:57
is to shift the target
- the target of fear,

12:00
the target of anxiety -
away from the pandemic,

12:02
away from the unvaccinated,
and towards

12:05
the rising totalitarianism
that we see.

12:09
Girard's solution is different.
His solution

12:12
in a word, although he doesn't
use it, is Love.

12:15
It is to say that we need
to understand that

12:20
the scapegoat is innocent.
And that's true too,

12:24
in the sense that we're
all flawed, we're all

12:27
guilty, and we're all innocent.
The most frequent

12:31
accusation I've seen thrown
at the unvaccinated

12:34
is that they're stupid. What
kind of society would

12:38
we be if that were really
true? If we would say

12:40
that some people are endowed
with intelligence,

12:42
some people are endowed
with stupidity,

12:45
and the stupid
should suffer.

12:49
Or maybe we're lying
about it. Maybe we

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don't really mean that
they're stupid.

12:52
Maybe we mean something
else. But then why are

12:55
we saying the wrong thing?
And I think that's the

12:58
case. And I think it reveals
a guilty conscience.

13:01
We say they're stupid but
we mean something else.

13:05
But if we really said
something else we

13:07
might look bad, so we just
call them stupid.

13:11
The point is, we can't
afford hate.

13:13
Hate won't protect
us from the virus.

13:16
Hate won't sustain
the community that

13:18
we claim we're trying
to protect.

13:22
Hate will only produce
hate. Hate will only

13:24
produce division. Hate won't
solve the problems

13:27
that cause the anxiety,
the precariousness,

13:30
the misery, the isolation
that many people

13:33
live in today. As Desmet
says, those root

13:35
causes are the things
we need to address.

13:40
But some people don't want
those root causes to

13:42
go away, because they benefit.
And we probably

13:45
shouldn't hate them either,
for the same reasons,

13:47
but the fact is it's in
their interests to find

13:50
something else to distract
us with. Because then

13:53
we might look at the
skyrocketing inequality in

13:56
our society, then we might
look at the actual

13:59
meaninglessness of many
of our lives, then we

14:02
might look at the fact that
progress seems to be

14:05
failing. This is the theory
of John Michael Greer,

14:08
that all this insanity is
because originally God

14:11
died in the 19th century.
And then we replaced God

14:14
with a new God, the God
of Progress, the God of

14:17
Man. And now the God of Progress
is failing too.

14:22
But whatever the root
causes, right now

14:25
what we need to do is
to stop the hate.

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Or I think there could
be atrocities.

14:31
That's not the only mention
that I have seen

14:34
of people calling for
concentration camps

14:37
for the unvaccinated,
concentration camps

14:41
for their neighbors. Desmet
says that it's only

14:44
30 percent that are basically
hypnotized that

14:48
are participating in
Girard's scapegoat

14:50
real ritual enthusiastically.
Another 40

14:53
are going along.
And the reason

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the 40 are going
along is because

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that first 30 are unified,
they have one story,

15:00
they have one project. And
the final 30 percent,

15:04
those who resist, those who
don't want to go along

15:07
with the consensus because
they're so different,

15:11
don't tell a single story.
And so they're

15:13
not as compelling for
those in the middle.

15:16
So those of us who want
to resist this must try

15:19
to at least get along enough
to stop this from

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happening. Because the other
thing Desmet says is

15:25
that although you cannot
persuade the hypnotized,

15:29
you cannot reason with
them. Because if they

15:31
accepted your reasons, then
they would have to

15:33
go back into the hell world
of anxiety and anger

15:36
and a lack of meaning. They
don't want to do that.

15:40
And because they don't
want to do that, they

15:42
stick with the lie, they
stick with the hate.

15:46
But as long as there's
resistance they're

15:48
less likely to do something
terrible.

15:51
He says that mass formation,
the totalitarianism,

15:54
turns really bad. Then
the atrocities happen

15:57
when everybody goes along.
So as long as we resist

16:00
we can hopefully prevent
that from happening.

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Maybe you think I'm
exaggerating. Maybe you

16:08
think I'm panicking. Maybe
you think this time

16:11
what we're doing is justified:
it's a crisis, and

16:14
besides totalitarianism is
about radical ideology.

16:18
What's radical about protecting
the health of the community?

16:24
Totalitarianism isn't about
ideology. There have

16:27
been totalitarians of the
left under Stalin,

16:30
and of the right. The Nazis,
the fascists in

16:34
Italy, the wartime Japanese.
Totalitarianism is

16:38
not about a particular set
of beliefs. It's about

16:42
how we treat people. Do we
respect their dignity,

16:46
their independence,
their rights and

16:48
their responsibilities
and their freedoms

16:50
as individuals? Or do we
treat society as an

16:53
organism, or a machine,
and every person is

16:57
a part of that machine -
a gear in the machine.

17:00
And if the gear doesn't work,
we discard it. Even

17:03
if you were to build such
a machine for a good

17:05
purpose, to protect the health
of the community,

17:10
the machine would then
follow its logic. We

17:12
would have built the
totalitarian mechanisms

17:15
needed to treat us
into parts. Even

17:17
though it was built
for a good purpose,

17:20
that's not how it would stay.
Because that's not

17:23
what it is. The machine
is amoral. The machine

17:25
doesn't care about us. The
machine uses us, and

17:29
if it doesn't have a use
for us it destroys us.

17:33
We have said for generations
now, Never

17:37
Again. I grew up under
the idea Never Again.

17:42
But in order for it
to never happen

17:44
again, we also have
always known

17:47
that it could happen here,
and it could happen now.

17:53
How much evidence do we need? If
we wait until it's conclusive,

17:57
all we will be able to
say is, yes, it did

18:00
happen. We let it happen.
We didn't stop it.

18:05
And then our descendants
a century hence will

18:09
be apologizing for the crimes
that we committed.

18:14
If we want to stop it
happening we have to

18:17
stop it before the crimes.
We have to stop

18:19
it when it's not obvious.
"Treat them like

18:22
the plague-spreading lepers
that they are."

18:27
If it were to happen
here, if it were to

18:30
happen now, wouldn't
it look like this?

18:36
This is Alphonse
for Radio Free

18:39
Beszel. www.beszel.ca.
Good night.