Radio Free Beszel

Like Bad Parents

October 22, 2021 Alphonse Season 1 Episode 11
Radio Free Beszel
Like Bad Parents
Show Notes Transcript

We punish adults as though they were children - in ways that don't even work on kids.

We say that we are handing out "consequences" - as though we are parents and they are our children. Of course it doesn't work - no-one likes being treated that way. Not even children.

The real keys to effective parenting are trust, love and respect. If your child knows you love him and respect him, and that he can trust you, then what you think carries a lot of weight. Children do crave boundaries, and they do like those boundaries enforced: but that's not at all the same thing as a struggle of wills over punishment.

Actual parents know this. We know not to treat our children like fools. We know that dishonesty and punishment carry a high price. We know that they are people too. 

Of course with adults punishment is even less effective - they are not children, we are not parents, and they know it. 

How is it that so many grown-ups don't seem to realize this? How is it that so many treat other adults like children? Is it because we don't have enough experience with children? Regardless, we can't expect to have healthy relationships with one another - or with our children! - if this is how we behave.

0:01
Good evening. This is Radio
Free Beszel. I am

0:05
Alphonse. Tonight: consequences.
So there's

0:09
a trope I've seen a lot,
which is if someone

0:11
does something that you
think is wrong you try

0:14
to punish them with consequences
- as in, "there's

0:18
free speech, but speech has
consequences." And the

0:21
consequences, as I say,
are usually punishment,

0:24
like trying to destroy someone's
job or career.

0:29
And I have two big concerns
here. First,

0:33
this doesn't work for
adults. And second,

0:36
probably more important,
it doesn't work

0:39
for kids either. And
I'm worried that we

0:42
have a lot of adults
running around who

0:44
might treat kids in
a really bad way.

0:47
Iou see punishment really
doesn't work for kids.

0:51
Almost never does. I'm a
father. I have a son.

0:55
And I rapidly discovered that
if i tried to punish

0:59
him he would just ignore
me, or he would he would

1:02
fight against it, or he would
go along for now but

1:05
then he'd do whatever it
was that I didn't want

1:07
again another time. It
just didn't change his

1:11
behavior. There is one
circumstance under which

1:15
punishment works - and that
is if there's prior

1:18
agreement. And this is
what all the parenting

1:21
books recommend. You sit
down with your child and

1:24
you say these are the limits,
and if you do this

1:27
then iIm going to send
you to your room. And

1:30
then if the child goes
and does that thing,

1:32
you catch him and you
say, well, you

1:34
did that thing so
off to your room.

1:38
You know what he does? He
trundles right off to

1:41
his room. That's my experience.
You know they say

1:44
that kids crave boundaries.
And I thought that

1:46
was a self-serving thing
that parents would say,

1:50
but in fact it's true.
They do. They

1:52
do want boundaries,
and if there are

1:55
boundaries they want them
to be enforced, so

1:58
they actually appreciate
it if you enforce

2:00
fair reasonable rules, that
they knew ahead of

2:03
time about what's acceptable
and what's not.

2:06
But the key thing here
is that there's an

2:08
agreement ahead of time.
The child agrees that

2:10
that behavior is out of
bounds. That's not the

2:13
case with these adults handing
out consequences.

2:17
There is something else that
can work, something

2:19
that can work when there
isn't a prior agreement,

2:22
something that can work
when the child actually

2:24
doesn't agree that whatever
he did was wrong.

2:26
And I'm saying he because
again I have a son.

2:30
And that's disappointment.
You know, I found this

2:34
simply because my son would
do something that

2:36
I thought was bad and he
thought was trivial,

2:39
and I'd get quite upset about
it and he wouldn't

2:43
respond. And I think, What
can I do? You know,

2:46
I can punish him, but what
difference is it going

2:49
to make? You know, I'd
found that whenever I

2:52
focus on the punishment
or I punish him then

2:54
the focus becomes the
punishment, and we end

2:56
up arguing about the punishment
and the substance

3:00
of whatever he did is forgotten.
So I just say,

3:03
well, I'm really disappointed
but I don't know

3:05
there's anything I can do
to change your behavior.

3:10
And he would come back
and he would apologize

3:12
and I would forgive him and
we'd put it under the

3:15
bridge and we'd move on. Now
that works, I believe

3:21
because of three things: trust,
respect, and love.

3:28
I must emphasize the
trust. I strongly

3:32
believe one should never
lie to a child.

3:37
I mean, about Santa Claus
and the Easter Bunny

3:40
if you like, but about
something significant,

3:42
no. There are lots of times
as a parent when it

3:45
would save a lot of pain
to simply tell a lie

3:47
to pass over something
difficult. But imagine the

3:51
cost if you lose that trust.
Then all of a sudden

3:56
you have no leverage on
the child when you need

3:58
him to cooperate on something
that really matters.

4:03
But imagine this from
the child's point of

4:06
view: if you have someone
whom you trust

4:10
because they never
lie to you, whom

4:12
you respect because
they respect you,

4:15
and who loves you
unconditionally, and you do

4:18
something and that person
is disappointed in

4:22
and sad, how are you
going to respond?

4:25
Of course you're going
to at least want

4:28
to find out what happened.
And then once you

4:31
do, you may develop empathy
and understand

4:34
why that person is upset.
And even if you don't

4:37
completely agree, change
your behavior. You know,

4:41
I'm not saying this
is like a tool I

4:43
set out to use. It
wasn't. It's just

4:45
something that happens
as a parent sometimes.

4:47
Sometimes one really is
just disappointed.

4:51
and I noticed that it really
made a difference

4:54
when he knew that. But look
at the other effect

4:57
of punishment, and I think
I've mentioned this

5:00
elsewhere, with the example
of spanking. The

5:02
reason we don't spank is
not because we're going

5:05
to hurt the child - which
we probably won't -

5:09
it's because of what
it teaches.

5:11
Say my son strikes
another child.

5:14
And I say, You hit that
kid, and I'm going to

5:17
spank you for it. Well, he
probably won't hit the

5:20
kid again while I'm watching.
But what lesson does

5:23
he learn? Does he learn
that hitting is wrong?

5:28
Absolutely not. Because I'm
hitting him, he learns

5:32
that hitting is right. He
learns that it is a way

5:36
to solve problems. You know,
as a parent, this

5:39
should be really clear to
us. When you start out

5:43
as a parent it's all new.
Nobody's taught you how

5:46
to do this stuff. And you've
got this big problem

5:48
that's taking most of your
time with a child

5:50
who's behaving in all sorts
of difficult ways.

5:54
And you're stuck in some
situation - maybe your

5:56
kid's throwing a tantrum,
he's jumping up and

5:58
down. You think he's going
to break things. You

6:00
think he might hurt himself.
Maybe you think he

6:02
might hurt you. What do
you do? There's nobody

6:05
around to ask for help.
You don't have time to

6:07
go to the Internet or a book.
So you look back on

6:10
what your parents did when
you were growing up.

6:14
And that's what you do.
And hopefully it

6:18
works. You know the key
way that kids learn

6:21
from us is not from what
we tell them to do

6:23
or not to do, it's not
from the punishment,

6:26
it's from being role
models. They see

6:29
what we do and we
learn from that.

6:34
Are adults really that
different? I doubt it.

6:40
When we punish adults,
or attempt to punish

6:43
adults, all we end up with
is a power struggle,

6:46
just like we do with kids.
Only in this case,

6:48
the power struggle is
even less one-sided.

6:53
And we set an example for how we
think problems should be solved.

6:58
I think one of the great
flaws in our society

7:02
is that we've segregated
people by age.

7:06
We don't have a lot of contact
with people who are

7:09
a lot older or a lot younger
than us, in general.

7:13
And a lot of people
who don't actually

7:15
have kids themselves
don't have a lot of

7:17
experience spending
time with children

7:18
or dealing with their
difficulties.

7:22
And the result is, I think,
we learn. We lose touch.

7:26
You know, we teach our kids,
but it's amazing how

7:29
much we learn from them.
Not necessarily about

7:32
them individually, although
that's true that

7:34
too, but we also learn
a lot about ourselves.

7:38
We learn about things
that turn out to be

7:40
pretty much built into
people. Sometimes

7:43
we learn about the sorts of
things that people learn.

7:47
The experience of being
a parent is incredibly

7:50
educational about what
it is to be human:

7:53
not just what it is to be
a child, not just what

7:56
it is to be a parent, but
who we are as a species.

8:02
And if we don't have that
experience around us,

8:05
I think we're losing something
out. Now I'm not

8:08
suggesting that if you're
not a parent

8:10
that there's something
wrong with you,

8:11
or that everybody should
have kids. Absolutely

8:15
not. I don't agree with
that. But I do think

8:18
that the separation we have,
where we don't spend

8:20
time with kids, has consequences
for us as a

8:22
society. I mean, there are
a lot of people who

8:25
don't have kids because
they can't afford them,

8:28
because the the economy and
the social structures

8:30
don't support it, and I think
that's a real shame.

8:33
But I think it has other
consequences, in the sense that

8:36
because we haven't learned
to deal with

8:39
children, it seems to
an extent the result

8:42
is we don't have know how
to deal with adults

8:46
either. For Radio Free Beszel
this is Alphonse.

8:50
www.beszel.ca. Good night.